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Old Sep 15, 2012, 10:03am   #11
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You should raise with the kings preflop for value against the limpers. Just something to think about, you have the best hand preflop a huge amount of the time, you beat 220 of the 221 possible hand combinations and they only have a few total hands between them so you need to raise for value with the kings.

I would have made it anywhere from 80 cents to a dollar with two limpers there, probably closer to the latter as a general rule for cash games is raise 3 times the big blind plus an extra big blind for every limper or slightly under that amount when you're raising.

Otherwise, you're letting your opponents have a free chance to suck out on you, and it's harder to build a big pot and win someone's full stack when the flop is good for you. Plus, if someone reraises, you can get your stack in preflop and be a favourite against the range of hands they're likely to go all in preflop with (for example, against JJ QQ KK AA and AK combined, you're a pretty significant favourite if they have all of those hands an equal amount of the time except KK since you have that, to the tune of you being around a 2:1 favourite (approximate range and odds obviously)

If you do that a hundred times, you will win $5 around 66 times and lose 34 times, so a net profit of say 32x $5 = you make $160 on average (and with variance you will usually make between $100 and $200 well over 90% of the time) doing that 100 times if you can get your stack in preflop as a big favourite with a hand like KK there

On the second hand, well played, you made a continuation bet in a spot it's hard for them to continue without having an ace and got it through.

Good luck anyway.

Also, don't play drunk, it's a bad idea. Tipsy is fine, drunk is not. One of my friends lost his 20k bankroll drunk because he decided that after a losing poker session he'd go and martingale blackjack. Really bad idea to gamble while drunk, and yes that includes poker.
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 2:18pm   #12
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you beat 220 of the 221 possible hand combinations
sometimes i wonder about you.

Kc
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 4:51pm   #13
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Thanks dude. Yeah the 2nd hand was ballsy. I even commented after, I wound up with 11.10 after my first two hands and said something like: "wow, I doubled up without even having to shove preflop."

And yeah lol with the Kings exactly that was on my mind. I was like, im in first position with KK, and I want to raise badly for value but, it might be obvious I have something strong if I'm raising from a posted blind. Much to my dismay I see so many limpers and my KK shrinking in strength each call. I swear by the last limper I thought I was going to have deal with a flush/straight draw or two pair and instead I flop four kings. Pretty anti climactic if you ask me

Yeah dude bad idea, drinking and driving is bad so is drinking and playing poker. I left like I said immediately after I doubled up because I knew I would make some terrible mistake if I stayed any longer, like playing a hand I shouldn't or something. I was definitely drunk. I drank probably 8-10 beers, maybe more, I gave some douche 20 for beer and he spends all of it on 3 6 packs, and 3/4 of the people I was with didn't even want anymore. So I was stuck with 18 bottles of beer lmao. I just wanted one and change. Oh well. It was fun.

I'm actually not going to play any poker for a few days. I'm really hungover from last night, and I don't want to force my luck. That's the second time I sat down and the first hand was something strong that usually people have to wait hours for at a table.

The irony though is even though its a miniscule amount of money at the very least I'm making some good plays and winning money as opposed to losing. In the betonline account anyway. I never was able to suceed on the merge network.

See I told you I'd get better but that's all, just better, haven't beaten the game yet. Before I Play their micro buy in tournys I should continue with the freerolls until I reach 50. That's a safe zone I Think for 25c buy in tournys.

Thanksf or the good wishes till next time take care. have a good weekend.

I was so drunk last night that I basically professed my love to the girl I buy weed from. Lol.

Though shit, rereading that part about the kings, I bet you at least one person would have called a dollar raise, and the fact that I had posted blind could have also just meant I was steaming or something. Damn. I felt like being sneaky but once I flopped the four kings yeah it was very difficult to bet for value because I was afraid of scaring them away. If I have all the kings then everyone else has absolutely nothing, and there may have been more in the pot had I reraised preflop. Grrr, kind of a waste of quads now that I think about it but at least I won the hand, and used those winnings to take down a better pot with the 3s. But you're right though. I definitely shouldve raised the KK there. Especially because on betonline anyway at those stakes people limp a lot so KK would be against some pretty worse hands like you said. Just some more thought on it

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Old Sep 16, 2012, 3:47am   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
you beat 220 of the 221 possible hand combinations
sometimes i wonder about you.

Kc
Yeah I misworded that trying to put it into words that feudallord would understand, what I mean is an individual player gets AA 1 in 221 hands, and KK beats everything else
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 3:56am   #15
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Thanks dude. Yeah the 2nd hand was ballsy. I even commented after, I wound up with 11.10 after my first two hands and said something like: "wow, I doubled up without even having to shove preflop."

It's called winning chips without showdown. Winning players do that.

And yeah lol with the Kings exactly that was on my mind. I was like, im in first position with KK, and I want to raise badly for value but, it might be obvious I have something strong if I'm raising from a posted blind.

That doesn't matter, you do it anyway, because KK loses most of its value in a multiway limped pot since it becomes harder to extract value on good boards and you risk paying off other peoples value bets when they suck out


Much to my dismay I see so many limpers and my KK shrinking in strength each call.

Yep, that's it. So raise preflop next time


I swear by the last limper I thought I was going to have deal with a flush/straight draw or two pair and instead I flop four kings. Pretty anti climactic if you ask me

Well, if you consider flopping quads anticlimactic

Yeah dude bad idea, drinking and driving is bad so is drinking and playing poker.

Decent analogy, instead of dangerous to your health it's dangerous to your wallet.

The same can be said for playing poker high. One of my poker pro friends went broke because he played high all the time and plays way too passively when he's high. Looking at the hand histories when sober, he recognised a lot of mistakes he didn't realise he was making because he was high.


I left like I said immediately after I doubled up because I knew I would make some terrible mistake if I stayed any longer, like playing a hand I shouldn't or something. I was definitely drunk.

Good, knowing when to leave a table is a good thing to have as a player but you should have never been in that game in the first place when drunk

I drank probably 8-10 beers, maybe more, I gave some douche 20 for beer and he spends all of it on 3 6 packs, and 3/4 of the people I was with didn't even want anymore. So I was stuck with 18 bottles of beer lmao. I just wanted one and change. Oh well. It was fun.

Cool, go out and have fun, but save the poker playing for when you're not drunk or high.


I'm actually not going to play any poker for a few days. I'm really hungover from last night, and I don't want to force my luck. That's the second time I sat down and the first hand was something strong that usually people have to wait hours for at a table.

Each session is independent of previous sessions, but playing when you're not focused because you're hungover would be a bad idea, so good thinking there. You're not more or less likely to win in your next session because of the previous session though.


The irony though is even though its a miniscule amount of money at the very least I'm making some good plays and winning money as opposed to losing.

Correct mindset. You can focus on making money from poker once you have improved enough to become a winning player. That may take some time.


In the betonline account anyway. I never was able to suceed on the merge network.

See I told you I'd get better but that's all, just better, haven't beaten the game yet. Before I Play their micro buy in tournys I should continue with the freerolls until I reach 50. That's a safe zone I Think for 25c buy in tournys.

Good thinking. Follow KC's bankroll management time and by this time next year, if you continue improving, you could easily be a winning player with a real bankroll.


Thanksf or the good wishes till next time take care. have a good weekend.

I was so drunk last night that I basically professed my love to the girl I buy weed from. Lol.

Though shit, rereading that part about the kings, I bet you at least one person would have called a dollar raise, and the fact that I had posted blind could have also just meant I was steaming or something. Damn. I felt like being sneaky but once I flopped the four kings yeah it was very difficult to bet for value because I was afraid of scaring them away. If I have all the kings then everyone else has absolutely nothing, and there may have been more in the pot had I reraised preflop. Grrr, kind of a waste of quads now that I think about it but at least I won the hand, and used those winnings to take down a better pot with the 3s. But you're right though. I definitely shouldve raised the KK there. Especially because on betonline anyway at those stakes people limp a lot so KK would be against some pretty worse hands like you said. Just some more thought on it

Yep, you're correct, and for all of those reasons you should have raised the KK. You learned a lesson though and that's important too.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 8:50am   #16
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sorry, but i don't get it..so many posters left this forums because no one gave them solid advice anymore, but you guys keep helping THIS dude? why? he is not listening to anything you say...he keeps saying he does, but he isn't...he keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. and im not talking about how to play a hand, it's obvious that he's a inexpierienced player, and of course he's making wrong desicions. but, what im talking about is the fact that he keeps ignoring solid advice, keeps playing games he's not supposed to play, ecc.ecc.

why even bother helping him any further? he want listen, and he just has not what it takes to become a winning player...

sorry to burst your bubble man, but i just can't imagine you'll ever be able to pay rent from poker..you say you are to lazy to get a job, and you would like to grind out enough from poker to earn a living...that's just unrealistic...im sorry, but it looks to me as if you are not a very intelligent person, you live in some kind of dream world, and you have a drug problem!

ok, so after all this not so kind words, now it's my turn to give advice:

- solve that drug problem

- get a job

- play poker as a hobby..maybe someday you can make profits from it, but it want happen as fast as you wish

and finally: LOL at having a bad hangover from 8-10 beers..HAHAHA
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 11:31pm   #17
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lol - wtf is this?
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 3:03am   #18
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Hey swoop, thanks for your comments in red. I can see how someone could play passively while high and, that probably explains why I've played passively this whole time until really last week. After watching more wsop2012 main event vids on youtube, and spectating that special tournament RPM had, I really saw first hand that it is virtually impossible to win consistently as a passive limper. I'll limp sometimes but usually when I play a hand, which in of itself has been its own calculated behavior, I open for a raise. The raise does many things for me as I mentioned earlier but in sum: narrows down a possible range for what the caller has, helps determine how strong my hand is when the flop comes, helps me get free cards, puts me in control of pot giving me pot size control, and the list actually goes on. But these were important elements that I never even bothered to consider that are incredibly important.

And also maddox, I'm not going to lie, it's why I'm writing this post. I've been thinking since I got ridiculously wasted with people on friday that, I Really don't think it's a good idea anymore to be under the notion that I can make a living from playing online poker. I love the game, and will keep it as a hobby. When I was in school this past year I was playing all day thinking I could win everything I lost back. Well now I've come to an understanding that that money is gone, and I lost it because I was really bad at the game. Too passive, and playing too many hands out of position. Now is the perfect time too because I deposited 150 two weeks ago, and have basically lost all of it. If you remember my earlier posts I was becoming frustrated because I would call a raise and then be forced to instafold the flop when missing which was 80 percent of the time. So I didn't exercise any kind of control over that. Then after watching that RPM tournament and the wsop vids I just said to myself let me completely change how I play in the opposite direction. Let me raise from now and be strong as opposed to being obvious about desperately trying to connect with the board.

So in sum, its beena little over a year now I"ve been playing poker and, I've decided to keep it as a hobby, like another computer game I play. As I said before its good timing because I came in 2nd in that freeroll, won 10.50, and now some how have 18.95, which starting from 0 is a pretty damn healthy amount. It turns out betonline actually does pay americans, if it ever comes to that. But I'm not going to rush anything, because I finally have learned that that spells disaster. Every few days if I have nothing else to do I'll play a freeroll, or if I'm feeling very focused to spend 3-4 hours on a real tournament, I'll buy in to a 25-60c micro stakes tourny.

Last thing...just wanted to say again that I really appreciate the advice everyone has given me, primarily swoop, KC, and darryl. Even though I'm not rich or anything, I really feel as though this strategy shift has made me a better player. Johnny chan said in this years WSOP that the more you play the game the better you get. But I think its more accurate to say the more you play the game correctly, the better you get. So I've got 18.95 in this betonline acct, and it'll just sit there or gradually disintegrate. Either way, I have some chips to play with when I feel like it.

I'll be checking in periodically to see how yall are doing but until then, good luck and take care

:-)

Btw lol, it would be sick to play against you and Swoop, KC. Play chips obviously lol...Let me know if you guys would be down sometime when you're free. We can use that 3d one that I was telling you about unless you got weak computers lol. Have a trippy 3 handed table, play for a half hour or something. I'm assuming you both play on pokerstars and if real money players can play their play chip tables then I have that as well.

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Old Sep 17, 2012, 4:41am   #19
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y'know, we haven't had a pokertips tournament for a long time...

any interest?

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Old Sep 17, 2012, 7:14am   #20
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I'll play if i'm grinding at 4am or whenever it'll be aussie time

@maddox I always answered strat posts etc it's just that traffic died off here post black friday since the euros post in the german section and most of the english speaking people that posted here were american
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