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Old Jan 10, 2014, 6:20pm   #71
killcrazy
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Originally Posted by darryl View Post
The obvious explanation is most likely the correct one. In fact, I'm going to bring up another American author later in this reply...I blame the US education and US media rather than myself, because in this country, that's what you do.
It's deeply unfortunate.

I wonder if this is as much an historical myopia as a geographic one...Most of those great books I would thrust on you were written before your country existed.

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I agree, I didn't really think gender had anything to do with this. Looked up Lowell Mill girls. Not really sure it adds one way or another to the discussion.
They made a significant contribution to the conflict between labour and capital. That they were women in the early 19th century underscores this.

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So maybe I just completely missed your point. Are you saying this drug war and minimum sentencing or whatever is increasing the prison population is all manufactured to keep the poor fed and off the street?
not to keep them fed, merely to remove them from society. they are fed because not feeding them would be a human rights abuse.

and this is by no means the only factor. we also have to protect the minority of the opulent from the majority, which is furthered by placing the active poor in prison and further intimidating the passive poor.
Interesting perspective. Care to elaborate more?
In which direction? Just look outside. Your country was designed to protect the wealthy from the poor.

In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability. - James Madison, 1787

Yeah?

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While I agree we need equality in numerous ways, we need to people to be free to their full potential. From what I gather in your posts, you would like to see would be instilling from the time of birth for people to strive to better all of society at the partial expense of themselves. SImilar to insect societies. This is all fine and good, we just can't handicap people's abilities for the sake of what's fair.
That bears no relation to what I propose. If anything it's the antithesis thereof.

I'm advocating a society where everyone's needs are met, and having (as a society) fulfilled the work necessary to meet those needs, everyone is free to pursue whatever it is that they desire.

The only "exception" to this would be the gratuitous acquisition of wealth, which is a construct of our misshapen dysfunctional society, and would be completely meaningless to the inhabitants of killcrazyland.

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as i've said before, we are getting ahead of ourselves trying to construct utopia. we have an absurdly unfair society that can be very easily brought into something far closer to equilibrium. that we haven't done so is abhorrent.
I wouldn't say 'very easily'. Some aspects would be easy, others not so much. At least in the US.
We are obviously using the term in different contexts. The difference between our respective contexts is human will, and I would agree that at present the Madisonians are winning the hearts and minds because they have successfully turned the people into a fat, lazy blob of Stockholm Syndrome. That is changing, however.

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Honestly though - and maybe my head is in the sand - I don't think it's nearly as bad as you are making it out to be.
Your head isn't in the sand, it's in a comfortable home in a pleasant, affluent neighbourhood.

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I'm sure I could gather stats to prove my point and you could dig up stats to prove your point.
50 million Americans currently live in poverty.

Approximately the same number have not, or will not, graduate high school.

I'm intrigued to see what stats you are going to be able to produce that won't emphasise the outrageous disparity between rich and poor.

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The cruise ship could still work, as they take longer to build new ones than it does to grow a cow.
Yes but you only need to build the cruise ship once every couple of decades. The boat doesn't sink at the end of its maiden voyage. Well, with one rather obvious exception.

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What sucks is when McDonald's introduces an item that has a new ingredient, the price of that ingredient to everyone else sky rockets because there are none left. It takes a good year for supplies to catch back up. This is why they will never release anything major with shrimp Nationwide in the US.
Mmhmm. In the UK we have a phenomenon known as the Delia Effect. Whenever Delia Smith uses a new ingredient or piece of equipment on her programme, there will be a run on it the next day. Supermarkets apparently get advance notice of what she's using so they can stock up on it.

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Price controls have been in the US for years and it ends up just being corporate welfare.
Interesting. Got a source for me to read?

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This once again is a problem with the system. It does seem like laissez faire is a better system when it comes to food costs.
Price controls are very good at creating shortages. You need total control over the supply chain from farm to supermarket to make them work. Of course I would nationalise agriculture and make staple foods free, so I don't have to worry about this

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So how about a positron system of propulsion? Sure right now it's probably expensive to collect enough of them, but I could see it being reasonable to store them in a magnetic field and send them off one at a time into a small amounts of lead or whatever for propulsion.
...You want to fire positrons into a block of lead...To achieve what exactly?

You could certainly use matter-antimatter annihilation to liberate energy from matter, and then you could use that energy to heat hydrogen which is exhausted to generate thrust, but the cost of producing the antimatter is absurdly prohibitive.

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Oh, and how about this. A very long gradual spring or set of springs that pushes up the vessel. The direction of the springs is controlled by a mini rocket that keeps up with it and keeps it on the desired path. Once fast enough, small corrective engines on the vessel get it into the desired orbit.
How is this any different to just welding the mini rockets onto the side of the spacecraft? You still have a mass at one end and thrust at the other. Doesn't really matter what you have in between the two. Assuming your springs are 100% efficient and no energy will be lost, which it will.

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Old Jan 16, 2014, 10:54pm   #72
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I haven't had any time lately to put in a thoughtful response. I did do some scratch work on the spring idea though and I was off by about a factor of 100 in my estimation. I was thinking about a 5km spring would be enough with a 5g accelleration to get into orbit. Well, when I quickly did the calculations, it would need to be about a 500 km spring. The idea of the spring is it's reuseable. 5km could potentially work, but 500 - not so much. So scratch that.
As for using positrons and firing into lead. Positrons are much easier to generate than antinuetrons or antiprotons. When combining with matter, positrons also emit much lower energy gamma rays that lead can actually absorb and then heat up or whatever.
Hmm... looks like NASA actually thought this through somewhat:
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/home...spaceship.html

anyway, I'll get to the rest at some point, not sure when though. Busy with work and remodeling the house.

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Old Jan 17, 2014, 3:45pm   #73
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I haven't had any time lately to put in a thoughtful response. I did do some scratch work on the spring idea though and I was off by about a factor of 100 in my estimation. I was thinking about a 5km spring would be enough with a 5g accelleration to get into orbit. Well, when I quickly did the calculations, it would need to be about a 500 km spring. The idea of the spring is it's reuseable. 5km could potentially work, but 500 - not so much. So scratch that.
ah, you want to use the spring for launch?

no, that's a terrible idea. math not necessary on this occasion. although as an aside, we used to have a medium to low ranking politician who insisted on sending us a "newsletter" every couple of months outlining his recent trivial achievements. i worked out how much energy could be stored in it if you folded it up like a concertina, and using a reasonable estimate of the number of newsletters that had been printed and a modest knowledge of ballistics, I calculated how far it would be possible to fire a 4lb cannonball. i then wrote a letter to the bloodsucking parasite in question outlining my findings and proposing that we declare war on aberdeen.

he did not reply...and then he lost his seat...gonna call that one a win.

incidentally the biggest advantage of using some kind of energy store like a spring isn't necessarily its reusability, it's that it doesn't actually need to be part of the rocket, whereas fuel and an engine do. this is a pretty big deal when you consider that payload accounts for ~2% of total rocket mass.

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As for using positrons and firing into lead. Positrons are much easier to generate than antinuetrons or antiprotons. When combining with matter, positrons also emit much lower energy gamma rays that lead can actually absorb and then heat up or whatever.
yeah this is why i asked what you were trying to achieve with your positrons. however you liberate energy from matter, you still have to find a way of harnessing it, and as i've said before, the chances of finding a better launch mechanism than expelling a hot gas from the arse end of the rocket are close to zero. the various ideas we've been considering are just different ways of heating that gas.

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Hmm... looks like NASA actually thought this through somewhat:
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/home...spaceship.html
well, yeah. of course they did. matter-antimatter annihilation is 100% efficient; 100% of the mass is converted to energy. for comparison, hydrogen fusion clocks in at around 0.7%. you would consider annihilation even if you thought you were on a hiding to nothing.

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Old Jan 28, 2014, 7:05pm   #74
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Hey,
I finally have a minute to get to this thread. It really doesn't interest me enough anymore to continue at great lengths. I hope you don't mind. I guess in that sense, I'm conceding. It was a great conversation and all, although it would have been much easier if I didn't have to type everything. It was nice to finally have a conversation on Ptips. It looks like we an actual poker discussion going on anyway.

Oh and BTW, yeah, the main thought behind the springs was that the weight isn't attached to the payload. I was also thinking that once things break the sound barrier, more fun stuff would happen.

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Old Jan 29, 2014, 8:38pm   #75
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i think we exhausted the subject quite comprehensively.

with the exception of one really fun idea.

we build a massive chimney, and down this chimney we drop a slightly oblate spheroid of the most elastic material we can find, with our spaceship balanced carefully on top. when it hits the ground the glob will deform on impact and spring back, hurling the spaceship into the air. try it with a rubber ball and a frozen pea, dropped from shoulder height. it's the most fun you can have with a rubber ball and a frozen pea.

i haven't done the math on this...but instinctively, to achieve escape velocity for the payload, we would need to be smashing the glob into the earth with sufficient force to cause a pretty substantial earthquake, so we would probably have to do this somewhere that doesn't matter, like france.

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Old Jan 31, 2014, 7:10pm   #76
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Funny you mention this. I did a science project in grade school testing this out with basketballs and superballs and such. I was testing the efficency of the energy transfer based on how high the basketball would go with and without the superball. Turns out the transfer wasn't all that efficient But the superballs did fly around like crazy.

I would imagine on that large a scale the G-forces would probably destroy most things inside.

I think we've exhausted everything for now

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